f_darkbladeus
Now there was some media attention to the song "Latimer's Mercy" which appears on the Scream album. I just wondered what your thoughts are on the song or on the act committed.
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I'll believe it the day Ozzy sings a real love song. ::animatedlaugh
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MattSabbath13
The song is good, not one of the best on the new disk but I enjoy listening to it.  I'm not too informed on the incident but I'll read up on it.  I'm sure the lyrics are just Ozzy's thoughts and what not and hopefully won't be taken to extremes like Hand of Doom, Paranoid, Suicide Solution, Mr. Crowley and so on.  Ozzy has always written about what not only intrigues him but what also puzzles him.  That's what drew me to Ozzy, he didn't just sing about love, or the blues or bitches and money, he has tried to express himself and his thoughts on just about every topic you can think of.  I know my rant more than answered your question but hey I always like to rant about Ozzy, he's da man!
See you in the darkness wanker!
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MattSabbath13
Thank you for that info.  I really didn't hear much about this case.  It is a moral bender to say the least.  Ozzy's voice is definetly chilling.  From the first couple run throughs of the song it sounds like Ozzy is trying to get inside Latimer's mind to see what he was thinking.  As far as my thoughts on the murder/mercy killing I honestly can't form a solid argument for or against him.  I hope I do not have to ever be in that situation and if I am I don't know what I would do.  I know if I couldn't live comfortabley I would want someone to pull the plug on me but that's just me.  Did his daughter want that?  I do not know.  Your life should be your choice.  Upon reading that he was not remorseful at all was disturbing and made me feel like Robert either lost his mind or may not have wanted to deal with his daughter anymore.  In that selfish case I say let that mofo burn.  THis is like the Terry Shiavo case from Florida a few years back.
See you in the darkness wanker!
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ozzgod38
thats a tough one to call
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f_darkbladeus
ozzgod38 wrote:

thats a tough one to call


here are my questions on this. do you think it's "ok" to kill someone who's born disabled just because you see that as an unfit and undeserving life to live? should everyone have to meet a minimum criteria of normality or else be subject to arbitrary termination? Should he not have relinquished custody of his daughter to someone who would care for her instead of killing her? Particularly because she was going to have a surgery that would alleviate her hip displacement (and therefore her pain)? I mean, even if she was eventually going to die of the disease, shouldn't she have had the privilege to live out her days as they were numbered instead of having someone, her father and mother no less, decide how many she should live? I am blown away by the story. and the public reaction of support to the father when it was murder. she was just disabled. a beautiful girl, and probably very sweet. should we terminate mongoloid children because they clearly are similarly mentally incapacitated? or limbless ones? ones born with defects that land them permanently in institutions? what about the "invisible" defects. sociopaths, and so on. do we start screening babies, and mark their documentation somehow so if at some point their parents decide to kill them we don't interfere? what about people who are resuscitated and then are vegetables? or, severe quadriplegics? does the lack of physical bodily function despite an intact mind signify it's time to administer the poison or morphine? what about burn victims...there's a whole load of questions this opens up.
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I'll believe it the day Ozzy sings a real love song. ::animatedlaugh
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devilmusik
i did not know the history of this song,  i think the child should have been put up for adoption
  very sad story
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AlpineValleyGirl
my dad was battling cancer while the Terry Sciavo situation was happening
and all he said to me was, "on't you dare do that to me."

and that's all I've got to say about that
Helping My Boss Find His Own Ass with Both Hands since 1986!
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f_darkbladeus
AlpineValleyGirl wrote:

my dad was battling cancer while the Terry Sciavo situation was happening
and all he said to me was, "on't you dare do that to me."

and that's all I've got to say about that


What does an adult like Terry Sciavo losing capacity to live as she had up to that time, or your fathers wishes not to have life artificially extended should he become brain dead have to do with killing a child born with a disease who was not brain dead but rather mentally retarded? This girl never knew anything different. Her reality has always been that she was handicapped. Those to me are vastly different issues. This girl did not ask to die, her parents assumed life was not worth living and ended her life. I guess having volunteered three years with the disabled I grew to have a very different opinion about disabilities and those born with them or who have developed them in their lifetimes. Sometimes it's biological, sometimes an accident or twist of fate has brought it about.
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I'll believe it the day Ozzy sings a real love song. ::animatedlaugh
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FIRSTOZZYFAN
f_darkbladeus wrote:

AlpineValleyGirl wrote:

my dad was battling cancer while the Terry Sciavo situation was happening
and all he said to me was, "on't you dare do that to me."

and that's all I've got to say about that


What does an adult like Terry Sciavo losing capacity to live as she had up to that time, or your fathers wishes not to have life artificially extended should he become brain dead have to do with killing a child born with a disease who was not brain dead but rather mentally retarded? This girl never knew anything different. Her reality has always been that she was handicapped. Those to me are vastly different issues. This girl did not ask to die, her parents assumed life was not worth living and ended her life. I guess having volunteered three years with the disabled I grew to have a very different opinion about disabilities and those born with them or who have developed them in their lifetimes. Sometimes it's biological, sometimes an accident or twist of fate has brought it about.
Yet,....online you bash people who you think have "anti social or personality disorders"??? Interesting,.....did you smash those kids in the face for looking at you the wrong way? I`m just trying to form an educated opinion...



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f_darkbladeus
FIRSTOZZYFAN wrote:

Yet,....online you bash people who you think have "anti social or personality disorders"??? Interesting,.....did you smash those kids in the face for looking at you the wrong way? I`m just trying to form an educated opinion...


FOF, grow up.
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I'll believe it the day Ozzy sings a real love song. ::animatedlaugh
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ozzgod38
f_darkbladeus wrote:

ozzgod38 wrote:

thats a tough one to call


here are my questions on this. do you think it's "ok" to kill someone who's born disabled just because you see that as an unfit and undeserving life to live? should everyone have to meet a minimum criteria of normality or else be subject to arbitrary termination? Should he not have relinquished custody of his daughter to someone who would care for her instead of killing her? Particularly because she was going to have a surgery that would alleviate her hip displacement (and therefore her pain)? I mean, even if she was eventually going to die of the disease, shouldn't she have had the privilege to live out her days as they were numbered instead of having someone, her father and mother no less, decide how many she should live? I am blown away by the story. and the public reaction of support to the father when it was murder. she was just disabled. a beautiful girl, and probably very sweet. should we terminate mongoloid children because they clearly are similarly mentally incapacitated? or limbless ones? ones born with defects that land them permanently in institutions? what about the "invisible" defects. sociopaths, and so on. do we start screening babies, and mark their documentation somehow so if at some point their parents decide to kill them we don't interfere? what about people who are resuscitated and then are vegetables? or, severe quadriplegics? does the lack of physical bodily function despite an intact mind signify it's time to administer the poison or morphine? what about burn victims...there's a whole load of questions this opens up.
what i mean is that it would tough to call cause there would be pepole on both sides of the issue
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f_darkbladeus
ozzgod38 wrote:

what i mean is that it would tough to call cause there would be pepole on both sides of the issue


Of course there are. The question was what do you think.

Clearly there was a slant in the media portraying him as a beleaguered hero initially, as is common with the press when they sway public opinion on an issue. They were taken to task in the courts for doing that. He did not receive that kind of press subsequently, but as they say, "the damage was already done."

The question really is what constitutes 'justified homicide.' Does a parent born with a disabled child get a "get out of jail free" card if they make the decision to end that childs life, or is that childs life held sacred, above the rights of the parents, and not able to be ended arbitrarily by parental decision. What defines those "compelling" reasons...irreversible coma? No brain activity? A disability?

I remember not so long ago when public opinion held the blind as unfit to teach, as with deaf-mutes. They were institutionalized and not taught. Remember Helen Keller?
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I'll believe it the day Ozzy sings a real love song. ::animatedlaugh
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AlpineValleyGirl
no its not.  my first comment was responding to the Terry Sciavo comment that MattSabbath made.  period.

I wanted that to be my final word on it but then your reply really got under my skin.  you got down on me for comparing Terry Sciavo's situation and my father's death to Latimer's case, which I did not.  have you looked into the mountain of information available to find out exactly what Robert Latimer has been going through for the last 30 years?  he shows no remorse because he sincerely believes he made the right decision.

and btw;  cerebral palsy is not a mental retardation.  its an incurable, progressively degenerative and painful muscular disorder.  there was nothing wrong with her mind, she just lacked the ability to communicate well because of her inability to control her muscles.

I still do not advocate euthanasia of 12 year olds with cerebral palsy....but I do advocate leniency for Latimer.
Helping My Boss Find His Own Ass with Both Hands since 1986!
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f_darkbladeus
AlpineValleyGirl wrote:

no its not.  my first comment was responding to the Terry Sciavo comment that MattSabbath made.  period.

I wanted that to be my final word on it but then your reply really got under my skin.  you got down on me for comparing Terry Sciavo's situation and my father's death to Latimer's case, which I did not.  have you looked into the mountain of information available to find out exactly what Robert Latimer has been going through for the last 30 years?  he shows no remorse because he sincerely believes he made the right decision.

and btw;  cerebral palsy is not a mental retardation.  its an incurable, progressively degenerative and painful muscular disorder.  there was nothing wrong with her mind, she just lacked the ability to communicate well because of her inability to control her muscles.

I still do not advocate euthanasia of 12 year olds with cerebral palsy....but I do advocate leniency for Latimer.


i hope we have established there is not disrespect but rather miscommunication and differences of opinion going on. i did not "get down on you" about what you said, i asked questions trying to understand what you were saying.

regarding what I said about mental retardation, this is a quote from her mother: "When we very first took Tracy home we knew that she had brain damage but they said it might be very mild or it might be worse. We ... had every hopes that ... she would be able to go to school but would just be maybe slow in school." tracy was mentally retarded and had cp.

anyways, some people reply to chronic stress and challenge in their lives by developing depression. sometimes that lead to not just suicidal, but also homicidal thoughts. latimer and his wife both talked about killing her. he acted on it, probably with his wife's general consent. he said "he had also considered other methods of killing Tracy, including Valium overdose and "shooting her in the head". it was premeditated.

maybe his family needed more support then they got. maybe it wasn't offered. maybe they felt what her life represented was a mistake from the beginning. maybe they rejected options that would have represented more humane results for Tracy because of their thinking process or guilt as parents to let her be cared for elsewhere.

death and tragedy are a part of life. people were working on bringing her medical relief. her pain from her hips, her issues all were common to those suffering from CP to the extent she was. the surgeries were offered not experimentally but routinely to help with those symptoms. she was not always in chronic pain, she had times when she experienced it. 

it gives me the willies to think about killing your own child. that's profanity to me. some people hold their children while they have far less hope than she had and watch them slip away from leukemia or cancer, never coming to the point of homicide. those children are suffering too. the whole thing is just abhorrent to me. but then i am one who says a prayer for roadkill, no matter what kind of creature it is. even for the butterflies that hit my windshield. i consider life a gift not to be taken away unless there is mal-intent (a rapist, burglar, and so on) and it would be in self-defense.
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I'll believe it the day Ozzy sings a real love song. ::animatedlaugh
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